A little retro ruling

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By Deno

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  1. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military

    Way back a bit, Craig Statler was penalized for placing a towel under his knees to keep his white pants clean. Ruling was improving his lie. Why now are guys able to remove shoes, socks, and shirts to hit out of a water hazard? Thoughts.

    I say if you want to hit it out, go for it, but with shoes, socks and shirt on!!!

    Deno

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  2. Eric H

    Eric H
    Ridgway, PA

    I think you have always been permitted to wear or not wear in this case whatever you want when hitting a shot. Stadler didn't want to get his pants wet in the dewey grass so he put that towel down. So he was deemed "buildig his stance", which is different than removing clothing. He could have taken his pants off, which would have been something to see!

    the craziest part of this situation is he played out the rest of the tournament and finished in 2nd place, only to be informed he was DQ for signing an incorrect scorecard! Thankfully, under todays updates to the rules, he would now be DQd rather he would have been assed the penalty to his total.

    Pretty wild! Golf is amazing!!!!!
  3. Barry M

    Barry M
    Reno, NV

    I think your right. I had to wear a green tutu for our annual tourny after the Patriots lost to the Eagles a few years back, and I took it off after the first hole, and I didn't get penalized.
  4. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military
    Just my opinion but I'd say shoe/sox removal is building a stance all be it underwater or everyone would go to the beach and swim with their Footjoys on. Last week the guy stripped down to play a shot from a mud puddle. When is a mud puddle part of the golf course? If it is, put on a rain suit and let 'er rip!! Where's the time clock rule? So much for pace of play. Geez! Signing an incorrect score card is another"Gotcha" joke. The Pros play for millions. The card should be checked by a PGA Official before being signed by the player. This isn't the 1800's. That rule should have been changed after Roberto DeVicenzo's robbery.
    It's high time golf modernizes some of these dumb rules or else, bring back the stymie.


    Deno
  5. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military

    Deno said:

    Just my opinion but I'd say shoe/sox removal is building a stance all be it underwater or everyone would go to the beach and swim with their Footjoys on. Last week the guy stripped down to play a shot from a mud puddle. When is a mud puddle part of the golf course? If it is, put on a rain suit and let 'er rip!! Where's the time clock rule? So much for pace of play. Geez! Signing an incorrect score card is another"Gotcha" joke. The Pros play for millions. The card should be checked by a PGA Official before being signed by the player. This isn't the 1800's. That rule should have been changed after Roberto DeVicenzo's robbery.
    It's high time golf modernizes some of these dumb rules or else, bring back the stymie.


    Deno

    How about a Tour official that sits at the desk, do a "routine" review BEFORE the player leaves the scorers tent? May not bother some of you, but this is getting ridiculous:


    In Gee Chun would’ve gone into the weekend four strokes behind leader Inbee Park and in a share of fourth at the Kia Classic. After Friday’s round, however, it was discovered during a routine scorecard review process that Chun had failed to sign her card.
  6. Frank P

    Frank P
    Port St. Lucie, FL

    Military
    I remember the Craig Stadler penalty well. It was at Torrey Pines in the late 80's. It was called in by some guy sitting at home watching on TV. In my opinion, one of the worst penalties ever handed out. If Stadler knelt on a piece of plywood, okay that's building a stance, but a towel is still going to follow the contours of the ground underneath.
  7. Chuck Z

    Chuck Z
    Mt Pleasant, SC

    Military

    Frank P said:

    I remember the Craig Stadler penalty well. It was at Torrey Pines in the late 80's. It was called in by some guy sitting at home watching on TV. In my opinion, one of the worst penalties ever handed out. If Stadler knelt on a piece of plywood, okay that's building a stance, but a towel is still going to follow the contours of the ground underneath.

    The PGA has eliminated fans calling in with rules infractions in todays game. Think that was a smart move. Most fans do not understand the rules of golf. Leave it to the players and the officials.
  8. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military

    Frank P said:

    I remember the Craig Stadler penalty well. It was at Torrey Pines in the late 80's. It was called in by some guy sitting at home watching on TV. In my opinion, one of the worst penalties ever handed out. If Stadler knelt on a piece of plywood, okay that's building a stance, but a towel is still going to follow the contours of the ground underneath.

    Frank
    There's another one you mentioned ....people calling in during a tournament. One reason why I don't watch any longer.
  9. Frank P

    Frank P
    Port St. Lucie, FL

    Military

    Frank P said:

    I remember the Craig Stadler penalty well. It was at Torrey Pines in the late 80's. It was called in by some guy sitting at home watching on TV. In my opinion, one of the worst penalties ever handed out. If Stadler knelt on a piece of plywood, okay that's building a stance, but a towel is still going to follow the contours of the ground underneath.

    Like Chuck said, that's no longer an issue. No more armchair rules officials, thank God.
  10. Les M

    Les M
    CT

    Military
    More areas need to be considered OB instead of getting free relief. Guys blasting driver at tents and such should be penalized when they fly into unplayable areas.

    Also, more penalty areas should be marked differently than with red stakes, and make them out of play to protect natural wetlands and waterways.
  11. Frank P

    Frank P
    Port St. Lucie, FL

    Military

    Les M said:

    More areas need to be considered OB instead of getting free relief. Guys blasting driver at tents and such should be penalized when they fly into unplayable areas.

    Also, more penalty areas should be marked differently than with red stakes, and make them out of play to protect natural wetlands and waterways.

    Not much chance of calling tents and temporary structures and storage areas that are on the the golf course itself during these tournaments as OB. Under the rules of golf, the player is entitled to swing, stance and line of sight relief, as these are considered temporary immoveable obstructions and not a permanent part of the golf course. Now as far as wetlands and protected areas, under rule 17.1e an area in the penalty area may be marked as a "No Play Zone" and the player will be granted relief. At our club we have several No Play Zones which are marked with Green Stakes.
  12. Les M

    Les M
    CT

    Military

    Les M said:

    More areas need to be considered OB instead of getting free relief. Guys blasting driver at tents and such should be penalized when they fly into unplayable areas.

    Also, more penalty areas should be marked differently than with red stakes, and make them out of play to protect natural wetlands and waterways.

    Being a purist, I am well aware of the rulebook. And that's why The Masters and The Open are the only two TV tournaments I pay much attention to. Way too much junk is erected and set up around the course at most tournaments which changes the layout of the course IMO.

    A no play zone is still within a penalty area and a subsequent stroke is to be taken. Removing pants to make a shot from a wet penalty area is an insult to the game and all who watch.

  13. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military
    I stopped watching regularly after Tiger had the "loose impediment" boulder moved by the gallery.
  14. Les M

    Les M
    CT

    Military
    Not attempting to be argumentative at all with you Frank. I only bring up the temporary immoveable obstructions situation because I feel the courses would play so much differently on many holes where these obstructions get set up. Having played a few of the courses which host tour events many of these areas have some serious challenges which get nullified by the obstructions. Players would have to think twice about taking that risk.
  15. Barry M

    Barry M
    Reno, NV

    Agree with Les. Also I don't remember seeing so much "lift, clean & place" as we see now.
  16. Frank P

    Frank P
    Port St. Lucie, FL

    Military
    I don't know how many people remember way back when, the gallery used to dive in front of Arnold Palmer's wayward shots to keep them in play. That is how the name "Arnie's Army" came to be known. Lift, clean and place is strictly a locally enforced rule that a Golf Committee running an event or professional staff during normal play can institute as conditions warrant. The USGA is the only group that does not allow lift clean and place in any of their events. Many things have changed in Golf since the days of Harry Varden, as they have in Baseball since Babe Ruth and Football since Red Grange. One thing in golf remains the same, get the ball in the hole in the fewest amount of strokes. I will continue to follow the professional game, in spite of the many changes that have occurred ion the last 150 years. Respectfully.....
  17. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military
    Frank
    Arnies Army got the name from soldiers from Fort Gordon that attended the Masters.

    Arnies words:

    I was the defending champion at the Masters that year, and, as he always did in those days, Clifford Roberts – Augusta National’s co-founder along with Bob Jones, used GIs from nearby Camp Gordon (now Fort Gordon), the military installation where Cliff spent two years as a young soldier, to work the scoreboards.

    Many people don’t realize that the Masters was not a sellout in those early years. Anybody with five dollars could walk up to the gates and buy a ticket for the day. Elementary school teachers had boxes of tickets on their desks with signs reading, “Masters Tickets: Please Help Support Our Town.” Cliff wanted as large a gallery as he could get that year since the Masters was being televised for the second time, so he gave free passes to any soldier who showed up in uniform.
  18. Frank P

    Frank P
    Port St. Lucie, FL

    Military

    Deno said:

    Frank
    Arnies Army got the name from soldiers from Fort Gordon that attended the Masters.

    Arnies words:

    I was the defending champion at the Masters that year, and, as he always did in those days, Clifford Roberts – Augusta National’s co-founder along with Bob Jones, used GIs from nearby Camp Gordon (now Fort Gordon), the military installation where Cliff spent two years as a young soldier, to work the scoreboards.

    Many people don’t realize that the Masters was not a sellout in those early years. Anybody with five dollars could walk up to the gates and buy a ticket for the day. Elementary school teachers had boxes of tickets on their desks with signs reading, “Masters Tickets: Please Help Support Our Town.” Cliff wanted as large a gallery as he could get that year since the Masters was being televised for the second time, so he gave free passes to any soldier who showed up in uniform.

    Deno

    Let's finish the story. A writer from the Augusta Chronicle named Johnny Hendricks ran the story with the headline, "Arnie's Army" The name stuck and everywhere that the King played, his gallery eclipsed that of any other player. His "Army" went on until the end. I attended the 1987 U.S. Senior Open at Brooklawn CC in Connecticut and followed him around. I'm telling you, his gallery was huge. You would think that he was the only one playing and he wasn't even in contention. Gary Player won the Tournament. Respectfully.....
  19. Deno

    Deno
    New Jersey

    Military

    Deno said:

    Frank
    Arnies Army got the name from soldiers from Fort Gordon that attended the Masters.

    Arnies words:

    I was the defending champion at the Masters that year, and, as he always did in those days, Clifford Roberts – Augusta National’s co-founder along with Bob Jones, used GIs from nearby Camp Gordon (now Fort Gordon), the military installation where Cliff spent two years as a young soldier, to work the scoreboards.

    Many people don’t realize that the Masters was not a sellout in those early years. Anybody with five dollars could walk up to the gates and buy a ticket for the day. Elementary school teachers had boxes of tickets on their desks with signs reading, “Masters Tickets: Please Help Support Our Town.” Cliff wanted as large a gallery as he could get that year since the Masters was being televised for the second time, so he gave free passes to any soldier who showed up in uniform.

    Frank
    On the money!!
    I saw him play many times in the NY/NJ area tournaments. He grew the game for us kids that wanted to smack that ball far and wide. One of a kind and glad our generation was witness to it. There'll never be another like him in my book.

    Be well my friend

    Deno
  20. Ed K

    Ed K

    5,000 people following him around and every one of them swears that Arnie at some point looked them in the eye, smiled and maybe said something to them. And he probably did (I know he did so to me in the 70's and early '80's).
  21. Ed K

    Ed K

    Back in the old days a fellow named Joe Dey was at USGA and the hired away by PGA Tour. Joe was famous for his rulings: A player would not like their situation, then would call Joe over in hopes of getting relief. Golfer: "What do I do here, Joe?" Joe: "Play it!"
  22. Brock L

    Brock L
    Fort Myers, FL

    A bunch of babies in this thread. Be honest, you don't watch golf because your wives don't let you.
  23. Les M

    Les M
    CT

    Military
    Babies? Ha!
    Brock, I was a Fort Gordon soldier who was in Augusta in 1986 when Jack did something pretty great.
    Were you watching it on TV? Haha!

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