Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Martin C — Mon, 09 Mar 2015 12:40:31 GMT

I'm playing a Matrix Rul70 stiff, tipped 1' , and is giving me the best ball striking all around. A fitting gave me the best numbers and a distance gain with a Fubuki ZT60 x (SS108) , but in the course it kills my back. A 70 gr shat unttipped feels too lose and heavy.

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Cath D. — Fri, 06 Mar 2015 16:03:12 GMT

Hi Daniel, Thanks for your post and I hope this leads to a good discussion on lowering spin, how low is too low, tipping and what other players have done to change their spin. In our research, just tipping a shaft 1" will not reduce the spin of a player very much, but the combination of swing change, head and loft change as well as tipping, could very well move a player's spin 500-1000 rpms.

Has anyone had experiences with shaft, head, tipping changes that have moved their spin numbers dramatically?

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Danielsw36 — Thu, 05 Mar 2015 01:44:08 GMT

i am a professional club fitter and do this every day. i was the master club fitter at golfsmith and now the head clubfitter at the pga tour super store. i have seen as little as 600rpms but most of the time i see close to 1000rpms decrease in spin by trimming the tip by an inch. if the players tempo is good they can play any shaft but non the less 4000rpms will make the ball float and never roll. ideally you need it as close to 2000rpms as possible. a shaft like the diamana whiteboard will knock that down and if you go to an x that will also lower it also a heavier shaft will also lower it. but most of the time a high spin rate comes from several things ball playing to far back in your stance forcing you to hit down on it (so move the ball forward in your stance and work on keeping your weight back to hit up on the ball) another reason for high backspin in most cases aswell is when the player is missing the center of the clubface this will always create very high spin (shorten the club to 44.5 or 45 to make it easier to hit the sweet spot on the face) and most definitely tip that shaft an inch. you can always lengthin the club by having a plug put in the butt. any questions dont be afraid to ask. and if someone disagrees sorry and i will take the discussion but real life results will be the only truth and thats what i have. have a great day all and simon if your still following this i know you will have your fix here

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Jason G — Wed, 26 Oct 2011 07:50:37 GMT

Pretty much as you say Simon. Find youyrself a good fitter who understands the golf swing first, ask him questions about how he fits people. If he relies just on launch monitor numbers, then just walk away. Get a feeling of how he understands the golf swing and what levels of importance the fitter puts on how he understands the golf swing, you are the customer, so its important and within your rights to ask. When you have found one that you think is right for you, go with an open mind, but I would defo say get rid of that D2 and get your self a D3 in a lower loft, but I wouldn't do that until the fitter has seen you first, then let him tweak things with different shafts, as he sees fit. Hope that helps you a bit. Regards Jason

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Simon P — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:16:31 GMT

Thanks to everyone for the information! Its all very interesting!

So if I sum this all up, I'm putting my current driver up for sale and I gotta let a fitter do his thing!

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Jason G — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:04:08 GMT

Hi Remember that there is no industry standard for flexes, and therefore a stiff flex profile in one manufacturers shaft may well be an x flex or regular in another manufacturer. Also, try to remember that tolerances for shafts can also be pretty wide. Measuring cpm's is only one way to measure stiffness and only measures butt stiffness, not overall flex. On top of that, its quite possible, due to tolerances, that a manufacturer can make two shafts, both the same shaft, same length, same swing weight saying its the same flex on the shaft (R,S,X) put into the same head, and the two shafts will have different Cpm's, even though they are the same shaft! So its a bit of a minefield out there as far as shafts are concerned. As for your question, but bearing in mind the above info, its important to get well fitted, as a good fitter will identify lots of things that are relevant and prudent. For example, I only swing at about 101-105mph, ball speed about 150-155mph (Trackman) and for years I was fit into a stiff shaft for a Driver with no success. Then a good fitter identified that I release the club head very late, so tried me in an UST Axivcore Tour Green, but with an X flex, the result was a revelation!! Awesome! So swing and ball speeds aren't everything, the guy I went to, has fit Sergio Garcia, Martin Kaymer, and Darren Clarke amongst others, and taught me alot. I have played golf for 30 years now and been fit many times, and the last guy that fit me was the first to identify why I was struggling with Stiff shafts. So its hard to say whether you need X stiff or Stiff to be honest without seeing you swing a club. Best advice is to go to a fitter that has a full understanding of the golf swing, and not someone who just relies on numbers and launch monitors. They are just a helpful tool, but if a fitter doesn't truly understand the golf swing, it will be very hit and miss whether he can fit optimally, he may get lucky, but may not. But I would defo be changing that D2 head for a lower lofted D3 as a starting point. Hope that helps a bit. Jason Kind regards Jason

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Ryan Crysler — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:59:24 GMT

I'm more open minded to shafts and would focus on those launch numbers first with a new head. If contact is off, or it doesn't feel like you have good control...then yes...stiffer or perhaps another brand that's stiffer would help.

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Tim S — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 20:31:20 GMT

On a related issue.

I play Project X 6.0 in my AP2's.

I have just purchased a 910FD 13.5 with the Project X 8C4. I belive the standard lenght on this is 43" so I am planing on butt trimming it 1" to play at 42".

Will this bring the flex up to the same as 6.0 I have in my irons?

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Simon P — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:49:22 GMT

Thanks RC!

I'll look into changing the loft of the head then. At that ball speed, am I definitely better with an x-flex shaft? Or is it whatever I can control?

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Jason G — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:32:32 GMT

Thanks for agreeing with me Ryan, I think thats exactly what I said a while back before my post was ok'd by you, you got in before me! But nice to know that you agree with me anyhow. Bit sneaky tho. Lol. Jason

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Ryan Crysler — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 19:17:10 GMT

Shaft is definitely not the issue here with that backspin number. You should definitely try a re-fit with a less lofted head...probably starting at 8.5 and working your way towards an ideal spin rate below 3000 rpm at that ball speed and launch. It may be techinically cheaper to go with a shaft, but at best, you could knock off maybe 300-500 spin.

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

Jason G — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:51:16 GMT

Hi Interesting thread. From my experience, tipping a shaft 1 inch will make it circa 1/2 flex stiffer, but it depends on the shaft in question. As for the affect it will have on your numbers, well it certainly will not bring 4400rpm of spin, down to 2800 rpm. It may bring it down c 200rpm, but nowhere near enough to make a noticable difference. Of course it would always be better to go get fit properly, but my own experience would suggest a much lower spinning head firstly. I don't think that any shaft on the market will bring that spin rate down by 1500 rpm to an optimal playing level. I would suggest that you really need the D3 head in a 9.5 degree, and offload the D2, as for lower spinning shafts in the Titleist shaft matrix, I would look at the Matrix HD6, the real Ahina, not the "made for" version that you probably have now, another good option would be the Oban Kiyoshi. But you really aren't going to get that spin rate down to an optimal level first, and the one thing that will help the most, is going to the D3 head, in my experience, by only changing the shaft, it may make 200-300 rpm difference, but only lowering your spin rate from 4400 to 4150 is not going to help you that much at all to be honest with you, and tipping it will only change the spin rates maybe another 100 rpm. Gotta change that head, lower loft, then think about tweaking with one of the shafts that I previously mentioned, it will only help if you go about it in that order. A good Titleist surefit fitter would help you more, but I would be delighted to help you, if you have any further questions. Kind regards Jason

Re: Tipping a shaft instead of going stiffer

George S — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 18:28:58 GMT

Simon,

Depending on the shaft make and model, a general rule of thumb would be if you tip a shaft by 1"...you will make if a half flex stiffer. The problem you will have with a shaft that is already installed is that there is no way to keep the existing shaft length...ie, if your current shaft is 45", you will be changing it to 44" which may change the lie and how it fits you...especially if you are tall.